Obviously access to clean water is a big one for basic needs, but it seems like the only thing currently covered here is desalinization. In Nicaragua at least they have plenty of fresh water but it is often contaminated and makes people sick. I'm pretty sure that is a problem elsewhere too.... So I'm wondering if we can add that to the Basic Needs content somehow, while still keeping it clean & simple. Reply to comment
Not a bad thought and probably something that warrants some discussion somewhere here. It is a weak area of knowledge for me, but wouldn't distillation and reverse osmosis that we already talk about in desalination also be a method of sanitizing? Perhaps we could throw something into the desalination articles about sanitizing principles of the different systems. If I'm missing some big point, please let me know, it's early and this is not one of my better areas. Reply to comment
Yep, I can see this being a place where we can improve our information.
While desalination is a solution for areas that don't have enough water, as you note, there are places where water supply isn't an issue, but the quality of water is.
What we really need are numbers showing how widespread a problem this is globally. If it's a huge issue, we may want to change 'desalination' to 'clean water', and focus on desalination and purification.
To me, I think the critical point to know is the number of people we're talking about. Now where we find that information, that's the question. Dear UN... Reply to comment
Hmmm. I've seen some global information on lack of access to clean water in general, although I don't know the break-down between having "fresh" but contaminated water and having very limited access to fresh water at all. CAWST (http://www.cawst.org/) is a source that we've been using for background info and teaching materials for water sanitation, maybe that could help... They say 1.1 billion people around the world do not have access to clean drinking water. How does that compare to the # of people that don't have access to fresh water?
I do think distillation and reverse osmosis work for purifying water too, although I'm not an expert in this area either. But I do know that there are other options too, and filtration can also be a good, clean option for purifying contaminated water. There are some folks here at blueEnergy that are working on bio-sand filters, which are water filters for home-us that can be made using local materials. It is essentially a cement tank which filters water using layers of different sized sand particles and a natural biological layer that grows in the filter and eats up the bad microorganisms. CAWST has more info on these things, and I think Practical Action may have some info too (http://www.itdg.org/). I can try to get more info on this stuff if needed. Reply to comment
One other resource I worked with a bit: AguaClara (link) is a cornell project working on using flocculating filters to very cheaply clean and sanitize water. (There's been research in using sand filters in parts of the system as well, especially after flocculation)
I do know that one of the big problems w/ reverse osmosis is the amount of energy needed to move the water through the filters. It's definitely not something that can be done without some significant source of power. Reply to comment
... all of these ideas require significant external investment in the community.
Especially if there are not established groups planning to continue filtration work in a given area, it's more practically sustainable to encourage water boiling. And hand washing.
How serious are problems of water purification compared to desalinization? I can only hope that families affected by water-borne epidemics will never know that such a question has been posed. Nearly 3000 have died of cholera in Zimbabwe in the past months. Zimbabwe has no sea coast. Reply to comment
Clearly water purification is an issue, and a serious one for health. My question was more, "how many people are going to have no water at all in the coming years" vs "how many people are going to have water, but not purified?"
I suspect that the numbers are probably within an order of magnitude of each other, and if possible, I want to know that before we commit to a significant amount of work changing the big picture.
The difference is important to know in terms of framing the issue. Both are issues. But if the problem is a lack of water, we have experience with desalination, and transporting large volumes of water huge distances (see the once-mighty colorado). If the problem is that the water we have needs treated, it's a different set of issues.
Just noting that I wasn't at all posing the question you reference, or questioning the impact of clean water, so no families should be offended. :) Reply to comment
We'll also need to find out the projected numbers for shortages as snowpack declines with global warming - I'm thinking of the Himalayan watershed at the moment, but am sure this applies to many more areas. Reply to comment
Sorry -- as you know, sometimes I am easily and entirely inappropriately offended :)
Wouldn't transported/desalinated water need to be purified anyhow? It may (read: will probably) become contaminated en route.
Another problem is that transportation requires functional governments that are willing to cooperate with one another. This is already an issue when more than one country depends on the same water resource (like the Nile), and is set to exacerbate whether we desalinize or not. If desalinization causes some countries to become entirely dependent on others for their water supply, bad things will surely follow.
I know that competition for water itself is an issue, especially for agricultural use in areas like the Middle East, where Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are running desalinization plants. However, as important as desalinization is, I really can't see it as the ultimate answer to water scarcity. For one thing, all pure water in these regions is extremely expensive; therefore, other means of improving agricultural irrigation, and developing climate-appropriate crops, are very important. Use-reduction is just as relevant if desalinization is common.
I'm trying to find some numbers on these things but don't have a ton of time; it does look like commonly used terms are "fresh water stress or scarcity", Water Stress Index, Water Availability Index... However, I don't think that comparing numbers on this is the best way to go about it. The two issues often go together -- where there is less water, dirtier water is probably more likely to be used. However, even if there is a lot of water all coming from one source and that source becomes contaminated, it doesn't matter how much water there is because everyone is screwed.
Implementing desalinization is an important part of the solution, but it isn't the entire solution. Both lack of water and treating existing water are issues in different parts of the world; in fact, I would say that *most of the world has an issue with treating existing water *many of these regions ALSO have an issue with water scarcity
Along with the engineering solutions of desalinization and transportation, other solutions of diplomacy, education, agricultural changes and developments, etc etc are all necessary.
In fact, perhaps the most iconic example of conflict over water scarcity (Cochabamba) wouldn't have been much affected by desalinization. In Bolivia, water was privatized by a transnational corporation, and the price sky-rocketed. The scarcity was created by the corporation. This is where diplomacy, right to water, regulation of TNCs, etc are all relevant... along with water purification, which is always relevant, even in the Middle East.
So, I guess it's clear that my vote is for changing the big picture :) Reply to comment
This is the point in time that me and Steve talked about when we first created the list, where it would be made pretty clear that the list was designed by engineering-type people and that we really don't know very much about the basic needs type stuff.
That's why we have friends like you guys.
One of the priorities for content for the next month (the month of February) is to figure out what is missing from the first attempt at the Big Picture and start getting that stuff in, so look for more info about that once we get past February 1st. Reply to comment
If you don't have an account, you'll need one. We recognize that this is a pain, but we do it to keep spambots from flooding the site. If this really bothers, you, please let us know. We're listening!
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While desalination is a solution for areas that don't have enough water, as you note, there are places where water supply isn't an issue, but the quality of water is.
What we really need are numbers showing how widespread a problem this is globally. If it's a huge issue, we may want to change 'desalination' to 'clean water', and focus on desalination and purification.
To me, I think the critical point to know is the number of people we're talking about. Now where we find that information, that's the question. Dear UN... Reply to comment
I do think distillation and reverse osmosis work for purifying water too, although I'm not an expert in this area either. But I do know that there are other options too, and filtration can also be a good, clean option for purifying contaminated water. There are some folks here at blueEnergy that are working on bio-sand filters, which are water filters for home-us that can be made using local materials. It is essentially a cement tank which filters water using layers of different sized sand particles and a natural biological layer that grows in the filter and eats up the bad microorganisms. CAWST has more info on these things, and I think Practical Action may have some info too (http://www.itdg.org/). I can try to get more info on this stuff if needed. Reply to comment
I do know that one of the big problems w/ reverse osmosis is the amount of energy needed to move the water through the filters. It's definitely not something that can be done without some significant source of power. Reply to comment
Especially if there are not established groups planning to continue filtration work in a given area, it's more practically sustainable to encourage water boiling. And hand washing.
How serious are problems of water purification compared to desalinization? I can only hope that families affected by water-borne epidemics will never know that such a question has been posed. Nearly 3000 have died of cholera in Zimbabwe in the past months. Zimbabwe has no sea coast. Reply to comment
I suspect that the numbers are probably within an order of magnitude of each other, and if possible, I want to know that before we commit to a significant amount of work changing the big picture.
The difference is important to know in terms of framing the issue. Both are issues. But if the problem is a lack of water, we have experience with desalination, and transporting large volumes of water huge distances (see the once-mighty colorado). If the problem is that the water we have needs treated, it's a different set of issues.
Just noting that I wasn't at all posing the question you reference, or questioning the impact of clean water, so no families should be offended. :) Reply to comment
We'll also need to find out the projected numbers for shortages as snowpack declines with global warming - I'm thinking of the Himalayan watershed at the moment, but am sure this applies to many more areas. Reply to comment
Wouldn't transported/desalinated water need to be purified anyhow? It may (read: will probably) become contaminated en route.
Another problem is that transportation requires functional governments that are willing to cooperate with one another. This is already an issue when more than one country depends on the same water resource (like the Nile), and is set to exacerbate whether we desalinize or not. If desalinization causes some countries to become entirely dependent on others for their water supply, bad things will surely follow.
I know that competition for water itself is an issue, especially for agricultural use in areas like the Middle East, where Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are running desalinization plants. However, as important as desalinization is, I really can't see it as the ultimate answer to water scarcity. For one thing, all pure water in these regions is extremely expensive; therefore, other means of improving agricultural irrigation, and developing climate-appropriate crops, are very important. Use-reduction is just as relevant if desalinization is common.
I'm trying to find some numbers on these things but don't have a ton of time; it does look like commonly used terms are "fresh water stress or scarcity", Water Stress Index, Water Availability Index... However, I don't think that comparing numbers on this is the best way to go about it. The two issues often go together -- where there is less water, dirtier water is probably more likely to be used. However, even if there is a lot of water all coming from one source and that source becomes contaminated, it doesn't matter how much water there is because everyone is screwed.
Implementing desalinization is an important part of the solution, but it isn't the entire solution. Both lack of water and treating existing water are issues in different parts of the world; in fact, I would say that
*most of the world has an issue with treating existing water
*many of these regions ALSO have an issue with water scarcity
Along with the engineering solutions of desalinization and transportation, other solutions of diplomacy, education, agricultural changes and developments, etc etc are all necessary.
In fact, perhaps the most iconic example of conflict over water scarcity (Cochabamba) wouldn't have been much affected by desalinization. In Bolivia, water was privatized by a transnational corporation, and the price sky-rocketed. The scarcity was created by the corporation. This is where diplomacy, right to water, regulation of TNCs, etc are all relevant... along with water purification, which is always relevant, even in the Middle East.
So, I guess it's clear that my vote is for changing the big picture :) Reply to comment
That's why we have friends like you guys.
One of the priorities for content for the next month (the month of February) is to figure out what is missing from the first attempt at the Big Picture and start getting that stuff in, so look for more info about that once we get past February 1st. Reply to comment
If you don't have an account, you'll need one. We recognize that this is a pain, but we do it to keep spambots from flooding the site. If this really bothers, you, please let us know. We're listening!