So there's been some discussion over at the alpha feedback thread about ongoing fixes. So, I'm starting this discussion to get people's feedback.
There seems to be a sense that some fixes (eating less meat, riding your bike, etc) are different than others (changing your lightbulbs), in that you keep doing them on a daily basis.
One perspective is that the fix should really cover the transition from what you did before (eat lots of meat) to what you do after (eat less meat).
Another perspective is that these sorts of fixes should be marked as different, and 'check in' with you, to see if you're still doing what you said.
There are pluses and minuses to both approaches. Ultimately, the site's about helping you to make changes in the world and your life that are sustainable.
What do folks think? What's another approach that's not in the two above? Reply to comment
(snipped from a reply to nick in the other thread:) Yeah, we've got a healthy debate going on those cases.
In one sense, you're done when you stop eating as much meat (for a few weeks, and you're confident that you made the change) - that initial change is what the fix really records.
I remember one of my favorite people ever, this fantastic old woman named Bette who had quit smoking some 15 years before I met her. On her refrigerator, she had a post-it note that said "Today, I am a non-smoker". It was a choice that she made every day.
But at the same time, she could tell you when she quit.
I'm vegetarian, and I choose not to eat meat every day. But I can tell you when I became one. My thought is that fixes should be about that initial change, not necessarily about maintaining that change as you go, but that could be the wrong way to do it.
Let's pose it another way (if anyone doesn't like the topic-starting questions): for cases like eat less meat or bike to work, how do you see fixes working, from start to finish? How should the site interact with you in a way that's most helpful, and encourages instead of discourages? Reply to comment
In my opinion, there really are two distinct kinds of fixes. There are project-style fixes such as replacing your lights or installing a solar-thermal system, ones with a definite end goal. Then there are the lifestyle ones, like eating less meat or riding a bike to work, that really aren't ever going to end. In fact these are exactly the opposite in that if they do end then it is no longer a fix. I do feel like maybe it might be helpful to in some way differentiate between them.
I see what you are saying about wanting to encourage the initial change of a fix, but shouldn't we also encourage the people who are already living a more sustainable lifestyle to continue to do so? It's extremely difficult to keep some of these things going and people should be encouraged to do so. If nothing else, people putting these fixes that they have already been doing on their profile might encourage other people to do a similar fix which would be a good thing. Reply to comment
Maybe the easiest way to deal with this is to add another set of options to the status. Instead of being "done", it might be "active" or "in effect" or "being maintained". Not quite sure what the best word/phrase here is. Reply to comment
Now, are these lifestyle sorts a fix, or something different? What interaction and representation is wanted from the site for them?
What about having a fix: 'eat less meat', in which, over the course of x weeks you reduce your meat intake,
and
A "things I do every day" part of your profile, where you could list things like 'eat less meat', or 'bike to work'. This would also allow people to list things they did before going to SixLinks.
Would it make sense to split difficulty into two separate measures; initial difficulty and continuing difficulty. In this sense changing your lightbulbs would have a moderate initial difficulty with no continuing difficulty whereas going veggie would have a fairly high continuing difficulty.
I like the idea of a "Things I do every day" section.
In terms of being vegetarian, continuing difficulty definitely depends on what kind of vegetarian you are, where you live and how much control you have over your diet. For instance, committed vegans almost always have a rough life in Europe/the Americas. So do vegetarians who live in or even take care of unsupportive families.
Tangent: In Peru, if I had been strict about not eating chicken broth, or not eating stuff made with lard, I would have starved. I probably would've been healthier if I had eaten a little meat there - vegetarianism simply doesn't make much sense in that region. And yet, their footprints are waaaaay smaller than that of a vegetarian living in the States.... Reply to comment
I think it should be kept as simple as possible. Changing the wording to active or something could work. It seems like a lot of fixes (maybe all?) are on-going and will require follow up activities. For example, even if you change all the lightbulbs in your house, you still have to make the decision to buy fluorescent lights (or the next best thing) when they burn out. Reply to comment
I don't think all the fixes need to be continuing. Example, installing a timer on a parasitic load device. Once installed this would continue until you chose to undo the fix. Likewise upgrading the insulation on your house would continue to give benefits without continued inputs.
These fixes are in many ways the best, since once done, they remain done. If there is a choice between two ways of accomplishing the same goal, one of which requires constant effort (or even intermittent effort) and one which requires an initial input but once completed operates automatically, the automatic one would be more sustainable and the better long term solution.
As to the light bulb example, yes you need to buy new bulbs when they burn out (but this is the same as if didn't use cfls) and both CFLs and incandescent bulbs take about the same amount of effort to purchase.
I wonder if having a "requires maintenance" flag on a guide/fix would make sense. If you have the box checked, it will automatically add it to the "things I do every day" section of your profile. Reply to comment
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There seems to be a sense that some fixes (eating less meat, riding your bike, etc) are different than others (changing your lightbulbs), in that you keep doing them on a daily basis.
One perspective is that the fix should really cover the transition from what you did before (eat lots of meat) to what you do after (eat less meat).
Another perspective is that these sorts of fixes should be marked as different, and 'check in' with you, to see if you're still doing what you said.
There are pluses and minuses to both approaches. Ultimately, the site's about helping you to make changes in the world and your life that are sustainable.
What do folks think? What's another approach that's not in the two above? Reply to comment
Yeah, we've got a healthy debate going on those cases.
In one sense, you're done when you stop eating as much meat (for a few weeks, and you're confident that you made the change) - that initial change is what the fix really records.
I remember one of my favorite people ever, this fantastic old woman named Bette who had quit smoking some 15 years before I met her. On her refrigerator, she had a post-it note that said "Today, I am a non-smoker". It was a choice that she made every day.
But at the same time, she could tell you when she quit.
I'm vegetarian, and I choose not to eat meat every day. But I can tell you when I became one. My thought is that fixes should be about that initial change, not necessarily about maintaining that change as you go, but that could be the wrong way to do it.
Let's pose it another way (if anyone doesn't like the topic-starting questions): for cases like eat less meat or bike to work, how do you see fixes working, from start to finish? How should the site interact with you in a way that's most helpful, and encourages instead of discourages? Reply to comment
I see what you are saying about wanting to encourage the initial change of a fix, but shouldn't we also encourage the people who are already living a more sustainable lifestyle to continue to do so? It's extremely difficult to keep some of these things going and people should be encouraged to do so. If nothing else, people putting these fixes that they have already been doing on their profile might encourage other people to do a similar fix which would be a good thing. Reply to comment
What about having a fix:
'eat less meat', in which, over the course of x weeks you reduce your meat intake,
and
A "things I do every day" part of your profile, where you could list things like 'eat less meat', or 'bike to work'. This would also allow people to list things they did before going to SixLinks.
Thoughts? Reply to comment
Just another option to throw out there Reply to comment
In terms of being vegetarian, continuing difficulty definitely depends on what kind of vegetarian you are, where you live and how much control you have over your diet. For instance, committed vegans almost always have a rough life in Europe/the Americas. So do vegetarians who live in or even take care of unsupportive families.
Tangent: In Peru, if I had been strict about not eating chicken broth, or not eating stuff made with lard, I would have starved. I probably would've been healthier if I had eaten a little meat there - vegetarianism simply doesn't make much sense in that region. And yet, their footprints are waaaaay smaller than that of a vegetarian living in the States.... Reply to comment
These fixes are in many ways the best, since once done, they remain done. If there is a choice between two ways of accomplishing the same goal, one of which requires constant effort (or even intermittent effort) and one which requires an initial input but once completed operates automatically, the automatic one would be more sustainable and the better long term solution.
As to the light bulb example, yes you need to buy new bulbs when they burn out (but this is the same as if didn't use cfls) and both CFLs and incandescent bulbs take about the same amount of effort to purchase.
I wonder if having a "requires maintenance" flag on a guide/fix would make sense. If you have the box checked, it will automatically add it to the "things I do every day" section of your profile. Reply to comment
If you don't have an account, you'll need one. We recognize that this is a pain, but we do it to keep spambots from flooding the site. If this really bothers, you, please let us know. We're listening!